13:26-13:57 - "But I think even when that happens, and even when people have the kind of history, that if they revealed to you, you would say, well, it's no wonder you turned out that way. The people who turn out that way still know that it's wrong. They still know that, however deep their own suffering, however arbitrary their own suffering, however much that's caused by the malevolence of others, as well as the tragedy of existence, that that does not in any way justify their turning away from the good."